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Hi, I’m Brad Feld, a managing director at the Foundry Group who lives in Boulder, Colorado. I invest in software and Internet companies around the US, run marathons and read a lot.

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Warning To All Entrepreneurs About Bad Investor Behavior

Comments (302)

I received an email from an entrepreneur today asking me about something that made my stomach turn. It’s a first time entrepreneur who is raising a modest (< $750k) seed round). There are two founders and they’ve been talking to a VC they met several months ago. Recently, the VC told them he was leaving his firm and wanted to help them out. This was obviously appealing until he dropped the bomb that prompted their question to me.

This soon to be ex-VC said something to the effect of “I can easily raise you money with a couple of phone calls, but I want to be a co-founder of the company and have an equal share of the business.”

In my email exchange with the entrepreneur, I asked two questions. The first was “is he going to be full time with the company” and the other was “do you want him as a third full time partner.” The answer was no and no. More specifically, the VC was positioning himself as “the founder that would help raise the money.”

I dug a little deeper to find out who the person was in case it was just a random dude looking for gig flow. David Cohen, the CEO of TechStars, has written extensively about this in our book Do More Faster – for example, see the chapter Beware of Angel Investors Who Aren’t. I was shocked when I saw the name of the person and the firm he has been with (and is leaving) – it’s someone who has been in the VC business for a while and should know better.

I find this kind of behavior disgusting. If the person was offering to put in $25k – $100k in the round and then asking for an additional 1% or 2% as an “active advisor” (beyond whatever the investment bought) to help out with the company, I’d still be skeptical of the equity ask at this stage and encourage the founders to (a) vest it over time and (b) make sure there was a tangible commitment associated with it that was different from other investors. Instead, given the facts I was given, my feedback was to run far away, fast.

Entrepreneurs – beware. This is the kind of behavior that gives investors a bad name. Unfortunately, my impression of this particular person is that he’s not a constructive early stage investor but rather someone who is trying to prey on naive entrepreneurs. Whenever the markets heat up, this kind of thing starts happening. Just be careful out there.

  • http://twitter.com/nathanameye nathan_ameye

    Thanks for being a great resource and helping to abate such behavior Brad.

  • Guest

    LOL

  • http://twitter.com/#!/georgelbowen George Lucas Bowen

    Thank you for touching on topics like this, you are a great resource for entrepreneurs out there fighting it out every day.

  • Ross

    A potential advisors once asked for 10%. I LOLed. Last time I spoke to that guy.

  • DaveJ

    What’s the justification for not naming names?  Libel/liability?  Or is there some sort of ethic in play here?  Seems to me that this person should be called out, tweeted, advertised, and should never be taken seriously by anyone again, but that will only happen if he is named.

    • http://www.feld.com bfeld

      I thought about it but since I didn’t have the experience with the person
      directly I didn’t feel like naming names. I also wasn’t interested in
      spending the time to verify the specific example, which would involve
      talking to him directly. Finally, I don’t want to negatively impact the
      entrepreneurs, so I’d need to expose their identity also, which would
      require more time to get them comfortable with what I was writing, have them
      review it, etc.

      Now, I’m sure someone out there will say “but that’s not proper journalism”
      and my response of course is “correct – this is my blog – I’m just writing
      my opinions.”

      • Pete Griffiths

        I think that is totally fair and appropriate.  What may help is to encourage the entrepreneur in question to post something on ‘The Funded.’

        • SVE

          Seconded. Post anonymously on theFunded. That’s what that forum is for. Bad behavior won’t end until anonymity is removed and the offender is made to public defend their behavior.

      • http://getabl.wordpress.com/ markslater

        Scott is right – for every supposed fred or brad who are transparent in their positions etc – you have 10 who are not. 

        The single best thing an entrepreneur does is secure top legal advice. Alot of the top companies offer deferred fee arrangements. The second best thing he or she does – is secures a competent advisor who can filter out these types of scumbags. 

        raising money is not an easy process for 95% of all entrepreneurs. surround yourself with good advice on good terms. Chances are its not fred or brad coming over the hill (i’ve never dealt with either so going on general sentiment).

      • http://freepository.com John Minnihan

        Coming into possession of actionable info that wld be of benefit to friends presents a seemingly tricky ethical issue: honor loyalty to your friends by disclosing it or honor your duty (+ often legally-bound obligation) to the entity from whom you’ve obtained the info.

        The corollary here is pretty obvious.  You have the name of a dude we should all avoid, yet disclosing his name wld create lots of drama for the entrepreneur(s).  You help them by not giving everyone else a specific, with-names heads-up.

        Ultimately, you have to do the right thing.  And that means not telling your friends.  It feels sucky, but it’s the right thing.  I deal w/ this a lot.

  • http://walkercorporatelaw.com Scott Edward Walker

    Brad – Thanks for calling this out.  As a corporate lawyer for entrepreneurs, I have sadly seen quite a bit of bad investor behavior recently.  Here are but a few examples:

    (i) An investor presenting a term sheet for a $350K investment for Series Seed preferred representing 60% of the company; (ii) a VC firm presenting a term sheet for a $250K investment for Series A preferred representing 38% of the company; (iii) an investor arguing to be deemed a founder and receive a majority of the shares of common stock for a $100K investment; and (iv) two
    instances of a British-based “VC” firm presenting term sheets for investments of $500-750K and then trying to convince the founders to first wire them $15K in funds to retain British counsel.

    All of these cases involved first-time entrepreneurs, who were unsophisticated and understandably excited to be getting cash in the door. Of course, I was then put in the unenviable position of trying to explain to them how ridiculous the proposals were and that they needed to move on.  Indeed, it took several weeks (and “detective” work) before my client would believe that the British offer was a scam.

    This is why I wince when VC’s like Fred Wilson and others write about just using standard forms without lawyers.  Yes, for extraordinary and honest investors like Fred and you (and many others), you arguably don’t need lawyers for a Series Seed, with standardized documents. But for some (if not most) of the deals, entrepreneurs truly need an experienced lawyer to watch their back. 

    Keep up the great work!

    Cheers,
    Scott
    http://www.walkercorporatelaw.com

    • Anonymous

      Could you detail a little nore about why the first two cases you mention are bad? If you’re an entrepreneur its still hard to tell what is reasonable and what isn’t, especiallu at that early stage. What would be more acceptable?

      • http://www.feld.com bfeld

        The valuations are very low (sub $1m) for a seed round. Normally you see
        valuations bottoming out at $1.5m pre and the overall seed range tends to be
        $1.5m to $5.0m pre depending on the history of the entrepreneurs.

        • http://rose.vc davidsrose

          Urk! Heaven forbid that I demur here (since you are virtually *always* right on everything!) but I think it’s important to provide context around your answer. That $1.5m – $5m range of pre-money valuations you mentioned is accurate, but only under a *very* limited set of constraints:

          (a) in Silicon Valley
          (b) for tech deals
          (c) with a bit of much-maligned “social proof” or “accelerator blessing”, and
          (d) primarily among either
               (d.1) new-ish angels who have gotten into the game recently, without a lot of long-term investing track record, or
               (d.2) a few of the “super angel seed fund managers” like our mutual friend Dave McClure, who will cheerfully admit to “being price insensitive and overpaying”

          Although there’s a bit of seepage from the bubble-heart of the Valley to a few other tech centers like New York, Boston and Boulder, a recent private survey of major angel investors around the country, many of whom who are NOT part of the ‘Valley technorati’, noted that the average outside the Valley for a seed-stage, pre-revenue angel round from experienced investors was a pre-money valuation of $1.5m, with a range of about $750k – $2.5m (assuming a seed round size of $250 – $1m).  This jibes with my own anecdotal experience, as well as with some preliminary, unpublished statistics from Angelsoft, which is now used by something like 40,000 accredited angels to manage their deal flow and investments.

          That said, I strongly echo your original point, and agree that the experiences both you and Scott shared are WAY out of line. Followers of this thread should note that even within the lower valuation/investment range I mentioned, the equity going to seed round investors is still only 25% ($250K/$750K) to 28% ($1m/$2.5m)

  • Pete Griffiths

    Great that someone like yourself comes out with this and calls it for what it is…respect.

  • Ben Kavanagh

    Why is this so bad? Few (if any) in the investment game are playing for altruistic purposes. It could be that this person has a service that he can offer, i.e. improving chance for financing. He is setting a price for that service. I anticipate that this type of insider dealing is correlated with other behaviours that are seriously unethical, for example, not disclosing his stake when he pitches to inside connections, but could you please be more explicit regarding your rejection. What are the worst case scenarios in accepting this type of money?

    • http://www.feld.com bfeld

      The person is not offering money. They are saying “give me 33% of your company in exchange for helping you raise money.” That’s an absurd ask.

      • ukfounder

        This is essentially what incubators like HackFwd do as well.

        • http://berislav.lopac.net Berislav Lopac

          HackFwd is providing both money and mentorship, and at a pretty good valuation (up to $1 million post-money!), considering you don’t have to have much more than a clickable demo…

      • http://twitter.com/rekatz reuben e katz

        are they offering to work full time as CEO? if they are inexperienced that could be a good deal… if his % is vesting and he has to work full time as CEO… if it’s 33% to help raise, then yes, that is worse than a usury loan shark and they should be ashamed.

        • http://www.feld.com bfeld

          He offerred to “help fundraise and advise” – he wouldn’t be working
          fulltime.

  • Guest

    What is the best way to deal with bad behavior after the VC has invested? 

    • http://www.feld.com bfeld

      Direct confrontation is usually the best approach. It depends entirely on circumstance, legal dynamics, ownership rights, and fundamentally the overall rationality of all parties. There is no short / quick answer here.

  • http://twitter.com/Roop13 Rupert

    I want to address this as well as I had a certain investor approach me about a 25k investment and then wanted a spot on the board and another 2 % as an advisor, of which he knows little about the space and doesn’t bring anything to the table.

    I asked Brad and David about it they gave me similar advice to his blog.  Great stuff.  Your advice has saved me on several occasions.

    Thanks!

    Also, maybe you should do InvestStars as well as TechStars and counsel people on how to be great investors in startups..Just a thought;)

    • http://www.feld.com bfeld

      Hopefully the new book that Jason and I wrote that is coming out at the end of July (Venture Deals – Be Smarter Than Your Lawyer and Venture Capitalist - http://www.amazon.com/Venture-Deals-Smarter-Lawyer-Capitalist/dp/0470929820/ – will help a lot with this.

      • http://www.marketing-startups.com Conrad Egusa

        I’m looking forward to the new book Brad!

      • http://www.venturestab.com Jerome Gentolia

        Been waiting for this book for quite sometime now. Any ideas when it will come out?

        • http://www.feld.com bfeld

          It should be out by the end of July. It is available now for pre-order on
          Amazon.

  • Anonymous

    If an angel investor is asking 1-2% for 25k, why would you be skeptical, or rather, what do you think they SHOULD get for investing 25k?

    • http://www.feld.com bfeld

      The angel investor should get whatever % based on the price of the round. In the example, I was saying that the angel was looking for an addition 1% – 2% based on their involvement. I’ll clarify in that in the post.

      • Anonymous

        Oh, right. That would seem strange. 

    • Thompson

      I agree with Garth, Brad.. why shouldn’t the angel put in his money at rounds established price, and then get equity for the efforts beyond the capital. otherwise angels will be encouraged to be “just money” as their is no upside to building the company alongside the founders?

  • http://www.venturestab.com Jerome Gentolia

    Wow! Insane!

  • Ruby Ninja!

    Wow! Unfortunately this is becoming more and more common. It is absolutely ridiculous to ask for a co-founder role and even more ridiculous to get equal share (or any share for that matter) of equity for a mere investor introduction. Entrepreneurs beware. You will have a difficult time raising funds in the future if the investors finds out that you have a co-founder with no vesting and no commitment.  He is damaging the chances of the entrepreneur to get future funding. He should know better. This is joker brokering at its best.

  • http://getabl.wordpress.com/ markslater

    they are everywhere. 

    we are half way through an angel financing of 500K – i’ve gotten a highly tuned radar for this person.

    On a separate note – Angel list is now very confusing. you have VC’s posing as angels, what does this mean? they are investing their own money? does that not conflict with their fund charter? (i’ll get in now before my fund gets in)?

    • http://www.feld.com bfeld

      Some VCs can invest their own money into companies. We don’t – and I think
      it’s a huge conflict for funds / VCs / LPs. We’ve always been very careful
      here, especially since I’ve historically done lots of angel investments.

      Other VCs are simply trolling for seed stage deal flow on Angel List.

      It’s definitely worth checking which role they are playing.

  • http://twitter.com/brianwegan Brian Egan

    While raising our seed round we had lots of “investors” try to extract value w/ finder’s fees, ridiculous advisor agreements, 10% common stock kickers and other lowball tactics.  Founders, you can spot these guys by the following characteristics:
    A) 2+ degrees of separation from someone you trust; B) Focused on discouraging you and discrediting your model (to make you think you need them) before making their offer; C) Always want to spend 20+ minutes reviewing their accomplishments, network and general awesomeness; and D) You feel like taking a shower after meeting with them.

    • http://twitter.com/toddvernon Todd Vernon

      ….and everyone they talk about pitching your idea to are bankers…  Dead on Brian, i see this all the time with “out of the flow” startups that are trying to figure it all out.  I’ve never seen angel investors work unless 1) They are family or know you personally (the “people investor)  2) They have been successful in your industry (the idea investor)  3) They are brought in with someone that is in 1 or 2

  • Audra Karfelt

    I AM HAVING A PROBLEM WITH CAFE WORLD ON FACEBOOK IT WONT LET ME ACCEPT MY TICKETS FOR THE SUMMER FESTIVAL. 
    WHAT CAN I DO? 
    OR WHO CAN I CONTACT ABOUT THIS PROBLEM?

    • http://www.feld.com bfeld

      Audra – if you send me an email (brad@feld.com) I’ll forward it on to the
      right folks at Zynga.

      • http://twitter.com/csl_ Carl S. Lange

        I appreciate your courteousness. It’s nice to see.

  • Adam L

    Thanks for bringing this topic up Brad. Its really helpful to all first time entrepreneurs. I dont find it surprising at all. We are currently raising money and one of our close acquaintance (who is well connected) has expressed the same desire. He even told us that with him on board (given his connections) there will be guaranteed exit.

    People are so greedy that they want free piggy-back ride with entrepreneurs. Entrepreneurs (especially first timers) are desperate to get their foot on the ground (irrespective whether it fails or succeeds). These people are exploiting naive and hardworking entrepreneurs. Unfortunately, this is making whole ecosystem murky. So please bring more awareness to this issue.

    • http://www.feld.com bfeld

      You are welcome. It makes me nuts that people try to ride on the backs of
      entrepreneurs like this.

      • Adam L

        One follow-up question if you dont mind. How to deal with these situations. Like my co-founders are shit scared since he might give us bad publicity (in his network if we say no) and we might not be able to raise money at all.

        It would be great if you can shed some light on how to deal with these situations professionally. Once again thank you!

        • http://www.feld.com bfeld

          I think the only real approach is to disengage and politely decline their
          involvement. You have to actually disengage – it’s not appropriate to
          continue to interact in any way.

          If the person asks why, you simply say you’ve talked to other professional
          investors who confirmed your impression that the ask was far overreaching.

  • Anonymous

    It was that kind of “investment” that eventually stopped me from starting my own institutional brokerage firm in 1995. Great article.

  • http://freepository.com John Minnihan

    bad VC, no biscuit

  • Ulf

    Brad, you should get that VC to invest in your marathoning, sweat equity and all.

    • http://www.feld.com bfeld

      Hah – cute. My goal is to never be in the same room as that particular VC.

  • Rich

    Can you explain further?

    Can’t a performance clause be used to oust the guy if he doesn’t produce the investments? If the guy can produce who cares if he wants a %. Paying based on performance is nirvana, no?

    If the guy was leaving the firm he was at. Wouldn’t that mean he would have to file all the required whatevers to solicit investments unless he was a partner and it was a private solicitation? In other words to perform “investment finding tasks” he would either need to be licensed or he would need to be a partner in the biz right?

    I’m just confused why you’re upset. Every deal should be unique and examined throughly by both parties. Providing “standard” anythings is where people get caught off guard. Like in the movies where they say “It’s a standard deal just sign it.”

    • http://www.feld.com bfeld

      Paying on performance is fine, but only if the compensation is reasonable.
      Getting 33% of a company for helping raise $500k is nonsense.

  • http://fred.io Fred Davis

    Good advice… I’ve seen this dirty trick lately, too. Tried warning the entrepreneur, but they trusted the investor… do your own due diligence on any potential investor, and beware of anything that deviates from standard practices. As Brad pointed out, when the markets heat up, the weasels are out in force!

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  • http://twitter.com/DipakPatel Dipak M. Patel

    Entrepreneurs – You started your gig because you had a feeling….don’t ignore your instincts when you start to get itchy feelings in weird places!!  Your “gut” is your most powerful weapon.  Don’t allow anyone turn it on yourself…

  • http://www.freezecrowd.com/ Eric Leebow

    This was an interesting post, I’ve had similar stories in the past just to make introductions.  It doesn’t surprise me.

  • http://hark.com David Aronchick

    Great comment Brad – I’d really like to see this person outed, either here or on the Funded. 

  • Diamond D Grier

    I just got off of the phone with my attorney in Italy, she was in Georgia this past week and we meet with two investors in which I sent an Executive Summary.

    I didn’t include all 45 of my plug-ins (Product/Services) in the summary.But I did so in the meeting.
    I’m requesting a marginal $10,000 investment which will be secured by company private shares in which Georgia Business Center will buy back 100 to 300% of what was invested from 6-12 months.. 
    100% in the first year and each year afterwards a additional 100%.

    Our company holds over 15 Patent, A global TV Channel, and a one of a kind product and services that is unheard of. Also, keep in mind a cable channel will cost you $12 million dollars, and we contracually have that but it is Globally in which cable is not.

    Additionally, I will hold that investors can open a franchise (No Franchise) Business Model anywhere in the USA at no cost and for their Investment. 

    Diamond D Grier (Pres/CEO of Georgia Business Center and SAN: Starving Artist Network)

    What do you’ll think.!?

    • http://www.feld.com bfeld

      Diamond, I don’t think I know enough about your business to have a strong
      opinion but if you are only looking for a $10,000 investment I’d suggest
      that you should be talking to individual / angel investors, not VCs. I’d
      also encourage you to look close to home / with friends and family – who
      might be interested in supporting what you are doing.

  • Facebook User

    Hi Brad! ran across your post from another friend of mine. How are you? I’m not sure if you remember, but we met at Standford last Sept when you gave your talk along with Dave Cohen of TechStars. I was talking to you about our company which does Cloud-based EMRs, and you said you’d show it to your dad. How are you? Hey congrats for Zynga :)

    • http://www.feld.com bfeld

      Yup – I remember – thanks for reaching out. Hope you are making progress!

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