« Colorado Conservation Voters | The New Dork »
Amazon Fires Its Affiliates in Colorado (Including Me) Because of Colorado HB 10-1193
I’ve been an Amazon Associate (Amazon’s affiliate program) for many years. Today I got the following notice in my Amazon Associates account.
and I woke up to the following email.
Dear Colorado-based Amazon Associate:
We are writing from the Amazon Associates Program to inform you that the Colorado government recently enacted a law to impose sales tax regulations on online retailers. The regulations are burdensome and no other state has similar rules. The new regulations do not require online retailers to collect sales tax. Instead, they are clearly intended to increase the compliance burden to a point where online retailers will be induced to “voluntarily” collect Colorado sales tax — a course we won’t take.
We and many others strongly opposed this legislation, known as HB 10-1193, but it was enacted anyway. Regrettably, as a result of the new law, we have decided to stop advertising through Associates based in Colorado. We plan to continue to sell to Colorado residents, however, and will advertise through other channels, including through Associates based in other states.
There is a right way for Colorado to pursue its revenue goals, but this new law is a wrong way. As we repeatedly communicated to Colorado legislators, including those who sponsored and supported the new law, we are not opposed to collecting sales tax within a constitutionally-permissible system applied even-handedly. The US Supreme Court has defined what would be constitutional, and if Colorado would repeal the current law or follow the constitutional approach to collection, we would welcome the opportunity to reinstate Colorado-based Associates.
You may express your views of Colorado’s new law to members of the General Assembly and to Governor Ritter, who signed the bill.
Your Associates account has been closed as of March 8, 2010, and we will no longer pay advertising fees for customers you refer to Amazon.com after that date. Please be assured that all qualifying advertising fees earned prior to March 8, 2010, will be processed and paid in accordance with our regular payment schedule. Based on your account closure date of March 8, any final payments will be paid by May 31, 2010.
We have enjoyed working with you and other Colorado-based participants in the Amazon Associates Program, and wish you all the best in your future.
I’ve been a supporter of Governor Ritter since his campaign for governor and have worked hard to positively impact Colorado’s software / Internet / technology / entrepreneurial ecosystem. Over the past two months, I’ve privately expressed my outrage over HB10-1192 and HB10-1193 to several people in Ritter’s administration. I watched as numerous people in the software / Internet community tried their hardest to help our legislators, the governor, and their staffs understand why this is such a huge step backwards for Colorado. I was told several times “don’t worry – we’ll take care off all the silly stuff.” There seemed to be enough folks showing up to discuss this that I thought rational minds would prevail.
I made a huge mistake. I should have come out very publicly about this when I first heard about it, made sure everyone that I supported during the elections that supported these bills (including one of the co-sponsors) knew my opinion and understood why they had the potential to be so detrimental to the software / Internet / entrepreneurial climate in Colorado. Shame on me for not being more aggressive, although there are some days I definitely feel like there are only so many fronts I can deal with outside my very full time day job.
I’m not at all surprised by this action on Amazon’s part. I expect the Internet Affiliate business in Colorado will completely die within the next thirty days (every company that has an affiliate business will turn off all of their Colorado-based affiliates.)
I then received the following email from Colorado Governor Ritter
Gov. Bill Ritter issued the following statement today criticizing Amazon.com’s decision to abruptly end its financial relationship with Amazon Associate businesses in Colorado:
“Amazon has taken a disappointing – and completely unjustified – step of ending its relationship with associates. While Amazon is blaming a new state law for its action, the fact is that Amazon is simply trying to avoid compliance with Colorado law and is unfairly punishing Colorado businesses in the process.
“My office worked closely with Amazon’s affiliates and associates to modify House Bill 1193 to specifically protect small businesses, avoid job losses and provide a fair, level playing field for on-line retailers and Main Street, brick-and-mortar retail shops alike.
“Amazon’s position is unfortunate, and Coloradans certainly deserve better.”
I’m especially disappointed in the Governor’s statement – it’s completely tone deaf to the actual issue and what Amazon is clearly stating. I’ve heard several people saying “Amazon is the problem” or “well – this is good – now people will buy locally.” Neither of these statements is valid – Amazon behaved like a rational company in the face of government regulation that had no upside for them and substantial downside. Also, this has zero impact on consumer purchasing activity as this doesn’t impact the end customer of Amazon products in any way.
Rather, the many small businesses and solo entrepreneurs who make money off of Amazon’s affiliate program just lost a revenue stream (which, by the way, is used to employ people and pay state taxes.) Colorado just got a big black eye in their historical effort to be a place that is friendly to business, especially high growth technology companies. And our state government likely now has lost more tax revenue than it was going to gain through the bill in the first place while simultaneously damaging the revenue streams for many small Colorado businesses.
The only logical solution in my book is what Amazon says in paragraph 3.
There is a right way for Colorado to pursue its revenue goals, but this new law is a wrong way. As we repeatedly communicated to Colorado legislators, including those who sponsored and supported the new law, we are not opposed to collecting sales tax within a constitutionally-permissible system applied even-handedly. The US Supreme Court has defined what would be constitutional, and if Colorado would repeal the current law or follow the constitutional approach to collection, we would welcome the opportunity to reinstate Colorado-based Associates.
I'm a bit taken aback by the Governor's statement. Why do people (politicians or otherwise) complain or act surprised when companies make completely rational moves to protect themselves (or further their own interests) based on legislation? It's pretty altruistic thinking to make changes to the law that would adversely affect a company and then act baffled when that company decides to take their ball and go home. That kind of reaction means one is either completely out of touch with common sense, or they knew it would happen all along and just don't want to admit it because it makes them look bad.
To be more specific about paragraph 3, it is my impression that the lack of definitions – of both "affiliate" and "nexus" – is at the heart of the matter.
I met with the predecessor to the Streamlined Sales Tax coalition when it was under Secretary of Commerce Gary Locke, who was then Governor of Washington. More information on what is "constitutional" can be found on their site at http://www.streamlinedsalestax.org/
And – minor thing, but one nonetheless – for as long as we locate Glue or Defrag (or any other technology conference) in Colorado, Amazon is refusing to send people to participate in the event….a loss of speaker talent (like Werner Voegels) and sponsor dollars (and hotel room nights and and and).
I'd assume it also precludes AWS from ever making a purchase of a Colorado-based software startups. (and, no, i don't blame Amazon at all.)
and which party might Governor Ritter belong to… the same one that's made a black hole for business in Michigan, … Calfornia,… and so it goes.
Repeal obviously will be a lot cheaper and quicker than a legal challenge. Perhaps the assembly will come to its collective senses in the next day or two. Denver News 4 covering this issue at 6PM.
You're right Alan. Why is anyone surprised that a Democat legislature and Democrat governor would take such an action? It's what they do and what they have to do to take care of their friends in the public-sector unions.
Is there any information available as to how many businesses are affected by this and to what extent? Would be interesting to see Amazon give some stats. Hopefully not too many people are relying on the Amazon associate program for their entire income…
I'll also be interested to see if any other affiliate programs follow suit.
The WSJ article reports that as of 2008, Amazon had 4,200 affiliates in Colorado that earned approximately $37.5 million.
http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424052748704...
Thats outrageous behavior on Amazon's part – Amazon should not penalize the citizens of Colorado for something that our stupid governor did.
I do not blame Amazon for their decision to pull out affiliate business, but fully blame them for acting childish in not sending their employees to Colorado conferences – thats bullcrap.
I would not buy from Amazon till they stop acting irrationally and ban speakers from speaking at Colorado based events. Others should do the same.
There is a right way to protest and wrong way to protest – by not sending people to Colorado conferences, Amazon is behaving in the wrong way.
Not only did they screw all of us affiliates, but they also fucked themselves out of the income tax we paid on the affiliate income. If it really was $37.5M of income, that's probably at least $10M of tax revenue that's gone. Nice work.
As a former ecommerce site owner, the logistics of dealing with sales tax are incredibly complex, given the various local and county taxes. The streamlined sales tax process aims to correct this, but it, too, has its issues (and is still a work in progress). And while Amazon is in a better position than small ecommerce sites to implement the changes necessary to track sales tax, that doesn't mean they somehow 'owe it to Colorado' to take a loss.
Especially when *not* taking a stand on the matter will lead to more and more states doing the same thing. In that regard, Amazon made a smart move in cutting out the middle man.
The saddest part about this to me is the ignorance of the free market displayed by Gov. Ritter in his response. Amazon is only looking out for the interest of its shareholders – it's pretty simple, really, to see that this would happen.
And of course, the ultimate result – CO consumers still buy from Amazon, the affiliates lose a revenue stream, and the state gains none of the projected tax revenue as a result. An all-around lose-lose situation. Shame.
It seems government has a very different view of what is 'silly stuff' from those of us actually making a living in the business world.
Colorado does not need to embarrass itself again (remember Amendment 2 and the loss of the entertainment industry in the 90s?) as a single-state hold-out to accepted nationwide business policy.
Colorado Legislature: FIX THIS please.
To me, this is all to be expected when state and local governments are allowed to demand that out-of-state businesses collect their taxes for them. Why the tax isn't levied at the seller's location rather than the buyer's never really made sense to me. Oh wait, because it's easier to tax businesses whose votes you don't need.
To me, this is looking like a year when the Democrats lose the state back to the Republicans.
During the campaign, I tried to tell you that Democrats are not the antidote to the Republicans, they're just a different sort of poison. People tell me my vote for the libertarians is wasted. Is it really?
Sounds like you're in need of a new political perspective.
So where does the money trail end with this amendment? Who is benefiting from its existence? (genuinely curious, not asking rhetorically to make a point).
This is probably the only argument that will get their attention.
Amazon : CO Sales Tax Laws :: Trader Joe's : CO Liquor Laws.
Hopefully in a few years it will all be a memory, just like Utah's Bar and Club membership program.
[...] Brad has a thoughtful piece on this.AKPC_IDS += [...]
actually, my (limited) understanding is that their lawyers advised them not to travel into the state because it would set some weird precedent that could then be used against them in such tax cases. again – for the record – i'm clueless about such things — just imparting what i know.
Wondering for how many Colorado companies the Associates Program was their sole or primary revenue source. I am hoping the answer is 'few' or 'none'.
We diversified out of the Associates Program two years ago — through circumstance, not foresight. Had we not, we would be road kill today, and I would be the lone idiot with the sandwich board outside the capitol building, with passersby wondering what could have caused my own peculiar brand of insanity.
The power to make or break businesses on the whim of some (typically big government) politician, is one of the things that seems so absurdly unfair and out of character for this country, a country that had been, for more than 200 years, quite overtly and innately favorable toward entrepreneurship.
Very well said Brad. Capital has never been more mobile than it is today. Incentives matter and this new law will drive businesses out of Colorado and further reduce Colorado’s tax base. Econ 101 should be required for politicians
I'm sorry, but I couldn't disagree more. I agree that sales tax regulations are far too complicated, but there are plenty of resources available to manage this process. However, the point here is that Amazon.com has an unfair advantage over local retailers as long as they can avoid collecting sales tax.
Colorado closed the loophole, and Amazon's response was a slap in the face to affiliates in Colorado. We didn't deserve to be fired.
It's important to note that Amazon.com has a long history of avoiding taxation – some say that their entire business model is *based* on avoiding tax. I don't know if I would go that far, but I don't think Amazon's response was fair or even a little bit appropriate. Frankly, firing me was a mistake.
Oh Great – now we are known as the Communist Republic of Colorado that people are afraid to travel into – Thanks @govritter, you are such a piece of work…
[...] Amazon Fires Its Affiliates in Colorado (Including Me) Because of … [...]
I just received a reply from Sen. Rollie Heath, sponsor of HB 10-1193.
RollieHeath@aol.com wrote:
> Thanks for your comments. We took affiliates totally out of the bill at their request. Amazon simply does not want to play by the same rules as the others. I'm truly sorry that it impacts you, but we amended the bill so this would not occur. Unfortunately, we cannot control what Amazon does.
>
> Senator Rollie Heath
"Can't control what Amazon does??!!" It's your JOB to make Colorado an attractive place for companies to do business and bring money to the state! The Senator and all the legislators were warned of exactly these consequences.
Regardless of how "diversified" internet marketers are, because all other online companies are likely to follow Amazon's lead, this law just kills anyone doing anything substantial in affiliate marketing (in CO).
[...] HB-10-1193 Is Bad for Colorado Business. Like many bills the government of Colorado has passed, this one is anti-Business. Read the entire Story about why more Coloradans will lose their livelihood due to Colorado government. [...]
Uhh.. right. Why not tax sex too while at it?
Amazon's statement is clear as mud. What authority does Amazon have to decide what's "constitutional" and what's not? Why isn't this explained in their notice? I say good riddance to Amazon. I've made my last purchase from or through them.
The reason Amazon is not sending speakers to Colorado (if that's true) and canceling affiliates s because they are now seeking to avoid establishing situs in Colorado at all costs because Colorado is trying to implement sales tax on out of state companies for shipping things into Colorado. This is very unconstitutional as has been ruled by the Supreme Court. Also, 1193 or 1192 I forget which actually makes a provision where out of state companies can choose not to pay the tax and instead report all items purchased by Colorado residents to the state of Colorado. Unbelievable but you can read the bills on the state web site. I've been wondering if amazon is going to 1) charge colorado sales tax, 2) report to the colorado government what its customers purchased at the end of the year as required by law if they don't pay sales tax, or 3) remove all hints of situs in Colorado and challenge the constitutionality of this. It looks like #3 is the route they're taking and I hope they win.
Because the Supreme Court of the United States said so
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Quill_Corp._v._North...
Educated your self before you post.
Because libertarians are out of touch with reality. Why? http://www.exponentialimprovement.com/cms/command...
On economic issues, Republicans and too many Democrats (DLC corporatists) are similarly affected.
Thanks for the link. My point was that they didn't explain in their notice. Seems the issue is what's a nexus: "a connected group or series." "4,200 affiliates in Colorado using the same mechanisms " isn't a "connected group or series"?
It's unfair competition for them to avoid taxes that an in-state company has to pay. Corporations will do whatever they can to avoid paying taxes … and they hope to beat Colorado into submission to provoke a race to the bottom.
Granted, there are too many corporatist (DLC) Democrats, but the Republicans are worse. This nation has moved so far to the economic "right" that true center now looks like the left: http://www.exponentialimprovement.com/cms/hannity... For who's responsible for the nation's economic woes, according to the CBO, see http://www.exponentialimprovement.com/cms/jobsjun...
Excellent comment, Jason
"Communist Republic of Colorado"? That's totally absurd. Delusional.
This nation has moved so far to the economic "right" that true center now looks like the left: http://www.exponentialimprovement.com/cms/hannity...
"Nexus" in tax issues has to do with the taxing jurisdiction. In the context of tax, it has nothing to do with "a connected group or series".
Years ago Quill defined nexus as the location of the business. That definition of nexus has quietly gone away as people everywhere pay their cell phone taxes based on where they live.
State legislators are under a gun. There are many, many challenges in the budget for years to come and no one wants to be the one that mentions cutting back on entitlements.
[...] Amazon Fires Its Affiliates in Colorado (Including Me) Because of Colorado HB 10-1193 [...]
That is a valid definition.
Corporations have robbed the public blind in that they avoid paying for the full cost of the infrastructure they use to do business. Those costs are passed on to everyone else and (surprise) people rebel at paying taxes to cover those costs. See the section on "Negative externalities" at http://www.exponentialimprovement.com/cms/invhand...
And "cutting back on entitlements"? For example, the "right" raised SS taxes to pay for future retirements, spent the money, and now says it's only IOU's. See the section on "The Social Security Act (FDR)" at http://www.exponentialimprovement.com/cms/govdysf...
Well, you obviously have an axe to grind, but I'll take the bait anyway.
"Plenty of resources available to manage this process" – besides the aforementioned streamlined sales tax project (which isn't functional yet), I'm curious as to which resources you're talking about? Most people who've had to wrangle their way through sales tax realize the absurdity of that statement. Most states have state, county, municipality, and local taxes – many of which cross zipcodes. For Amazon, it's less of a problem to manage, but for a two-person startup, it's a HUGE resource drain. And that's just for one state – if this thing continues to spread to more states, we're talking hundreds of thousands of different taxes. If you don't believe me, I'd encourage you to try it yourself.
As for the 'unfair advantage', perhaps…but the ends don't justify the means. When Colorado closes the 'loophole' with a move that violates the due process clause of the Constitution, the point is hardly moot. Check out the [Quill Corp. vs. North Dakota] U.S. Supreme Court case for the precedent.
Simple fact is, Amazon did what the free market dictated it do in the face of this law change. The CO legislature decided Amazon should take one for the team, and Amazon decided not to take the loss. Altruism is not their responsibility in the face of an unconstitutional law. You may not have deserved to be fired, but they don't owe you anything (unless you have a contract stating otherwise). Especially not when Colorado is passing laws that will make it more difficult and less profitable for them to keep affiliates in Colorado. It's only natural that they cut out the part of the equation that's going to cost them more money than it would to keep it.
Really interesting and informative blog to read out. Thanks for sharing wonderful article.
The inhabitants of Colorado ARE responsible for the actions of there "stupid governor" – they voted for him. It is not Amazon's fault that the majority of Coloradans elected who they did.
[...] Amazon Fires Its Affiliates in Colorado (Including Me) Because of … [...]
[...] Amazon Fires Its Affiliates in Colorado (Including Me) Because of … [...]
[...] Amazon Fires Its Affiliates in Colorado (Including Me) Because of … [...]
[...] Amazon Fires Its Affiliates in Colorado (Including Me) Because of … [...]
[...] Amazon Fires Its Affiliates in Colorado (Including Me) Because of … [...]
I can see both sides of this issue. I understand why Amazon doesn't want to deal with all the political red tape. This legislation would definitely make it more cumbersome for them to do business within the state of Colorado. I do some online retail with a couple websites, so I understand the online retailer's frustration.
But I can also see Colorado's side of this as well. I own two retail stores in the People's Republic Of Michigan. For years, my business association, as well as the Michigan Retailer's Association has been fighting to get our state to enact the Use Tax…..something people are supposed to be paying anyway but don't.
Anytime something is purchased outside of the state, people are required by law (at least in Michigan) to pay their tax on the items that are purchased out of state by claiming the purchases on their income tax return. This has been totally voluntary, but many retail associations are putting pressure on state governments to force the issue.
Your brick and mortar stores in your state applaud this legislation. The online retailers hate it. Colorado appears to be the first state to enact such legislation, but I can guarantee you, they will not be the last. States want to recoup the tax they are losing to online sales as they try to find ways to keep business within the state. I think this is just the beginning of this issue.
I'm also involved in an exploding home based business, so I'm just kind of sitting on the sideline totally playing all sides and watching the fireworks.
Wouldn't you have thought that both sides could have come together to work this out in a manner that would have been productive to all. Kind of childish that they couldn't have created this in a win/win fashion isn't it?
Who is John Galt?
[...] Amazon Fires Its Affiliates in Colorado (Including Me) Because of … [...]
[...] Amazon Fires Its Affiliates in Colorado (Including Me) Because of … [...]
[...] Amazon Fires Its Affiliates in Colorado (Including Me) Because of … [...]
Governor Bill Ritter is a My Hero. I have a Retail Store & for to long the Field has not been level with the Competition. I do't want an advantage, I just want the game to be fair. Online Retailers can pay their Taxes the same as everyone else. If we can put a man on the Moon then we can collect sales taxes through Amazon or any other Website out there! I have seen Celebrities & Pro Athletes put in jail for not paying taxes then regular old Joe Blow or Josephine Blow orders something on his or her computer & has no intention of paying the tax. 5 Years ago this was not an issue but now in 2010 50% to 60% of retail is online. Politicians out there need to get their head out of the sand & show support for this Brave Governor who had the courage to do the right thing not to mention my fellow Americans!
[...] Amazon Fires Its Affiliates in Colorado (Including Me) Because of Colorado HB 10-1193 [...]
My Amazon Associates account was terminated and I support Amazon's decision to do so.
Colorado is losing revenue and Coloradoans are losing revenue — and it's our fault. We get the government we deserve. We brought this upon ourselves when we voted for these kleptocrats.
Tax competition is here to stay. We're not tied to doing business in Colorado like a bunch of serfs. If Colorado doesn't want us, we can do business elsewhere. It looks like a lot of small businesses will now be "moving" from Colorado to Delaware or Nevada.
Now I haven't read all the comments above, but what seems to be missing from the debate on CO's action is just what right the state, or any public entity, has to tax online sales. This from a fairly liberal Democrat, by the way.
Brick & mortar stores pay sales taxes because they impose issues on a government – utility costs, increased traffice and road use, etc. Online purchases pose NO additional burden on a government. Government does NOT have the right to tax something simply because it's there. Taxes should be to offset the burdens imposed by additional activity.
I get the state is in dire financial stress and needs to make tough choices. But finding new revenue options by taxing activity just because it has yet to be taxed is not right. CO hasn't forgone online sales revenues. It doesn't have the right to them. You don't lose what is not yours to begin with.
Geez, it's enough to vote Republican.
~ Scott Woodard
State after state tries this, only to witness the predictable result of zero new tax revenue as businesses shut down. I wonder which states will have all the affiliates when this is over?
When I first heard about this, I thought –
Why don't the eCommerce companies just move the corporate Hdqtrs to Nevada?
I realize it becomes more difficult regarding merchandise shipped into Colo.
Somehow this is going to end up again in the Supreme court.
My east coast state is also considering this. I guess they are waiting to see what happens in Colo.
I’m especially disappointed in the Governor’s statement – it’s completely tone deaf to the actual issue and what Amazon is clearly stating. I’ve heard several people saying “Amazon is the problem” or “well – this is good – now people will buy locally.” Neither of these statements is valid – Amazon behaved like a rational company in the face of government regulation that had no upside for them and substantial downside. Also, this has zero impact on consumer purchasing activity as this doesn’t impact the end customer of Amazon products in any way. – I COMPLETELY AGREE. Good for Amazon.
Just spreading "the" wealth. Socialism/liberalism/progressivism/Marxism/fascism/multi-culturalism are in direct opposition to constitutional freedom and the American-American culture and society that evolved from it. I am sorry it has hurt businesses in Colorado.
Elections have consequences. This is what you get for voting for Democrats. I have very limited sympathy for you.
[...] Amazon Fires Its Affiliates in Colorado (Including Me) Because of … [...]
Brad, I wonder if this experience will have any impact on who you'll be supporting in the Bennett and Hickenlooper elections. My guess is you'll continue to support the looters in the Dem party, but I'd love to be proven wrong here.
On the tax location issue… I am a retailer in California. In this state, the sales tax is the financial responsibility of the seller. When the buyer pays sales tax at the register, it is, technically, a voluntary reimbursement. This is how some retailers can have a "no sales tax" event. They simply pay the taxes as usual, but do not ask the buyer for reimbursement. Maybe, if you look up the actual tax code for CO, you may find it to be similar
I run three online retail businesses in a liberal East Coast state.
There are over 7500 sales tax jurisdictions in the United States. As the public employee pension tsunami hits in the coming decades, the numbers of jurisdictions implementing new sales taxes is expected to skyrocket.
The cost for the software/hardware/accounting/auditing to even theoretically comply with 7500+ jurisdictional sales tax laws is astronomical.
One of the companies in my trade group has over $240million a year in gross sales, but with very thin margins. He would be out of business if he was forced to comply with 7500+ sales tax jurisdictions.
No entrepreneur is going to risk being arrested, extradited, tried, fined and jailed in podunk jurisdictions over sales tax law compliance. That goes from the little guys like myself, all the way up to the Board of Directors and CEO Bezos of Amazon.com
Elections have consequences, Democrat majorities owned part and parcel by parasitic public employee unions in Colorado are dead set on killing the host body politic if it means their special interest bosses at the unions get their golden retirement packages.
There are further failures coming to Colorado due to this law.
Your vast empty spaces of CRE will never again be repopulated by productive tax paying, job creating companies if regional, national, and multinational companies forever fear the wrath of a 'situs and nexus' ruling on their activities in your state.
Maybe they can turn all those empty office buildings into public housing for the elderly who don't have public union pensions.
Everyone must get their education. Anyone that believes in the Democrat model will get educated at some point in their lives. Conservative are always considered dense, uneducated, morons, rednecks, etc, because we want simple Constitutional regulations that are based on Free Enterprise and capitalism. This is just an example of business seeking the capitalist level fairest to them. They will always do this. Just as your employer will stop paying for your health insurance if their is a public option to force you on to some sort of Medicaid, stand in line, controlled cost for treatment, sort of system. People will find this out eventually, but it will be too late. My company has already sent me 2 notices of help to get me disabled and put on Social Security disability so I can get Medicare and they can drop my insurance. As if it would be desirable for me to get on Medicare.
Anyone over 50 can remember Carter and his debacle of a presidency. If you are under 50, well, maybe you haven't learned how close America can come to coming apart. I am afraid, this time, that we may have gone to far to the edge to pull ourselves back, and who will be the next Reagan?
All the public schools would have to do is teach students that when you tax something you get less of it, bit instead the kids wear "Che" Tee shirts. Elections do have consequences, and I'm afraid the whole country, not just Colorado will learn a terrible lesson soon. I was taught in the 6th grade that socialism doesn't work, and never will work, and why it doesn't work, yet the whole world seems to be on it's path to bankruptcy. I guess the best teacher is to lose your job, your home, your savings, and maybe even your family before we give up on utopia.
Someone should ask the Governor how much tax income was generated by this bill in public and force an answer. Anyone willing to bet that Amazon wasn't the only "runner" from this bill? His answer will be 1. It's Bush's fault. 2. Look at the jobs we saved with this law. 3. Look at how bad it would have been had we done nothing.
And all the unemployed dope heads will nod in complete agreement.
I hope you have no sympathy, as I’m not interested in sympathy!
Shall I switch to the looters in the Republican party?
I was thinking the same thing, I have a small company and was thinking to do something soon based in part on the affiliates company.
It seems that if I register my company in Delaware I can probably still join the affiliate program… I'd like to continue supporting Colorado but I guess Colorado doesn't care to support me, so it's time to break ties.
I'm afraid this is just one of a long line of bills to be passed at every level, in every country. I read today where Israel is forcing Americans to divest their interests there and repatriate the money to the US or elsewhere. Every morning I wake up and I hear New Zealand calling…
On a side note, you do have another address outside of Colorado…using it is just another form of protest.
Yes, because Republicans are content to loot what is already there instead of seeking to expand the total pool of Loot.
And you never know, after a while you may be able to get enough reasonable Republicans to agree to reduce the pool.
Please visit Colorado Software & Internet Association site for all the information about this… they, along with many business folks tried to get this stopped.
http://www.coloradotechnology.org
As a small biz operating out of Co, i am glad that they passed the bill to tax internet purchases. Many of those who send their money to improve other economy as well supporting other kids school instead of your own. Those with kids of working age, How do you expect local biz to hire your kids or even you if you keep sending your money out of state. Some of you will give the excuse that you are saving money and not aware that , by doing so you are jepordising your own.
As a small biz and other biz in town pay lots of taxes every month to your city so your home value increase and other things that you demand to improve your way of life. Well how could you accomplish that if you keep doing biz out of state.
This is just wrong. Taxing in this way is no proper incentive for people to purchase locally in order to improve local economy. Fostering innovation should be the solution.
Trust me it will. Internet cosumers are doing so just to save. However when they see that someone is tightining the grip they will . because they all are about savings. I am with you on inovation.
I operate my biz here in Co and my prices are identicle to internet however i loose on the tax.
[...] Amazon Fires Its Affiliates in Colorado (Including Me) Because of Colorado HB 10-1193 [...]
Interesting….because I started my web company while living in Illinois and still have bank account there, Amazon probably doesn't know I moved to Colorado three years ago and therefore the switched didn't get turned off on me.
Link broken, but I agree with you that the big-L libertarians are confused. That said, the general libertarian (small-l) approach is the right way out.
Do you believe 1193 would have been passed & signed if we had a Republican legislature and/or governor?
That's weird that the link is broken. Found it's because it has a dot at the end … don't know how that happened. It's http://www.exponentialimprovement.com/cms/command... or http://tinyurl.com/ya2gbmw . Their view of reality is partial and limited, big L or small "l" … but, granted, I see them as the same.
Eddie,
I'm not a CO resident so I don't have skin in the game, but CO didn't pass a mandatory collection use tax law, which is basically what you would like where out of state businesses must collect tax. CO passed a law that in effect expands the definition of a nexus of business, so they can "legally" require out of state businesses to collect local sales tax, that by Supreme Court case law says can only be collected from in state businesses.
I doubt that many people shop in Colorado rather than online now because of this law. Instead they will continue to shop at Amazon, and other internet retailers, that have taken pains to be sure they have no business relationships in CO so they still aren't legally obligated to collect sales tax or report purchases to CO government.
Eddie, you are the extreme exception, if every one of your product prices are identical to the lowest available internet price. I regularly shop with online comparison websites to get the best deal, sites like google.com/products.
When I go there, I usually want a specific item. I don't care where it comes from as long as it is from the US or Canada, and honestly I don't account for whether I have to pay Texas sales tax. I do base my decision on the combined item/shipping cost, which for most purchases is an order of magnitude more relevant than sales tax.
There are generally considerable differences between the first and second best price, and the rest of the prices, and between the average internet price regardless of state, and what I can find it at from businesses in my city. I'd estimate in only 15% of the cases, does a Texas internet business have the best or 2nd best price.
It always amazes me when smart business people like Brad support Democrats for election and then they are surprised, even shocked, when the Democrats screw up the economy.
James Mitchell
http://www.jmitchell.me
Why don't you vote libertarian? I still don't understand how any sane businessperson could vote democrat OR republican.
Colin you are missing the point. Point is support your local economy to help you improve your community.
You saidand i quate.
There are generally considerable differences between the first and second best price, and the rest of the prices, and between the average internet price regardless of state, and what I can find it at from businesses in my city. I'd estimate in only 15% of the cases, does a Texas internet business have the best or 2nd best price.
My biz is a brick and mortar. If you go to your local biz and ask him or her to demonstrate a product, after waisting their time on the demo you simply buy because of price without even giving him a chace to earn your biz. Did you factor the time he spend with you? Did you factor the service that he will give you? These guys put themselves infront of and helped you instead you choose to pay someone else who did not do any of the above.
Think logicly, how would like it if you went work and the company sent a ck to some else time after time. I bet you wont last. My friend that is what you are doing sending your money to someone who did not earn it.
Petition against HB10-1193
http://www.petitionspot.com/petitions/OpposeHB119...
My biggest regret is the same as Brad's – I should have been actively fighting this as it moved through the legislature. It's a startup business killer. I am fighting now. I recomend contact your state representatives.
Also, please consider adding your voice on ColoradoPols about the damage this bill does – http://www.coloradopols.com/diary/11830/an-amazon... – the legislators read that site.
Won't this all even out once they do this in every state? And then the price of sales tax software will come down because all these online businesses need it. OR online businesses will all use Amazon's web offerings as their backend, and use their tax services. http://aws.amazon.com/
It's very simple people – it's all about taxing nexus. If Amazon sends employees into a State where it doesn't already have a physical presence (like Colorado), then CO will state that Amazon now has a legitimate business presence in CO by attending, marketing and promoting the Amazon business (at a conference or otherwise) and the State – at that point – would slap a tax nexus on Amazon and they'd be required to collect sales tax on all CO residents (like they do in Washington) and it would therefore make their products more expensive and less likely to earn the business. Amazon's entire business model is based on having the best (lowest) price and if tax is added on then it's likely not the lowest price around. To avoid this problem, Amazon will not conduct business (at any level) in States where it doesn't already have a nexus due to its employee's physical presence in those states.
Brad – could you establish your address as Alaska instead of Colorado and get around Amazon's restrictions (from your personal perspective only – I don't mean to support Colorado's new policy)?
A libertarian hero in a libertarian fairy tale.
[...] a message to Brad saying that I was in town and he invited me to the meeting. This is back when Brad wasn’t disappointed with the governor Anyway, another nice, [...]
Eddie,
I don't believe most of the stores in my local community (that aren't large and national or regional) are offering a valuable service or really helping to enhance my community.
I understand they are at a disadvantage for various reasons. But they don't offer a wide selection, competitive pricing, a clear written return policy posted in their store, a way to get first hand reviews of the product, and especially extended store hours. I don't think many of them provide any real form of after sale support. There are a few local stores I do like and I am willing to spend 10% or a little more for the same product at those stores.
I have no desire to support most of these sub-standard local stores. And I don't take up their time when I occasionally go in them just to quickly see what they offer. Salespeople and overly doting owners annoy me, so if they are chatting me up and demonstrating their product while wasting their time as you say, I didn't ask for it and I don't want it.
What I do appreciate are online stores that have wide selections, with product reviews on their website or easily searchable while I am shopping by looking on google, competitive pricing, a written (not verbal) return policy I can peruse at my leisure and 24 hour shopping. Your store may be one of the local stores I would like and frequent even if you cost a little more, but again in my experience you would be the exception.
interesting debate.
could you set up a legal entity in Nevada with a mail box to get around this?
[...] *Not an affiliate link. Thanks, Colorado. [...]
All I can say to this is… the big government is finally starting to affect you personally.
Nobody seems to realize just how serious this "government takeover" actually is… it doesn't matter whether you're democrat or republican (that's the shill)… there is no difference between the two, it's an illusion… crafted masterfully, and executed with decades of planning (and social engineering data – think superbowl commercials!).
Props to Amazon for using Colorado's first steps towards a fascist government, as a tool to enrage it's citizens… the only way people will stop voting and WAKE UP… is when someone smashes their television and steals their wallet.
Well, it's time to wake up… your wallets gone.
(and your governor doesn't seem to know anything about it).
Now that you're awake, things are only gonna get worse.
[...] March 8, 2010 Amazon fired me as an Amazon Affiliate because of Colorado HB 10-1193. I proceeded to have a dozen different conversations (email and live) with several of my [...]
I heard that Amazon had decided to reinstate all Associates after the tax bill was overturned, but I just checked my Associate account and I still have that "Account Closed" message. Has anyone confirmed that they have been reinstated as an Amazon Associate?
I am not aware that the tax bill was overturned.
Dang – I just took a closer look at the email I got telling me that the bill was overturned, and it was dated April 1. I guess I got caught in an April Fool's joke – thanks for setting me straight, Brad!
[...] HB10-1193 – also known as the “Amazon Tax” – really upset me as I wrote about in Amazon Fires Its Affiliates in Colorado (Including Me) Because of Colorado HB 10-1193. While I discovered a partial solution via a service from a company called Viglink which I [...]
When this first came out (living in Colorado) I was irritated by it but since I wasn't really selling through Amazon I wasn't too concerned. But now my son just came up to me and said he saw something on youtube about how to sell books on Amazon and wanted to try and earn a little cash. I told him that he couldn't do that so I was wondering if anyone knew of another similar source that would be easy for an 11 year old to figure out?
I don’t know of another source, although if he signs up for Viglink (www.viglink.com) he can simply include Amazon (and other sites with affiliate programs) in his links and he’ll get part of the affiliate fee.
You should know about Georgism
From Wikipedia. Georgism, named after Henry George (1839-1897), is a philosophy and economic ideology that holds that everyone owns what they create, but that everything found in nature, most importantly land, belongs equally to all of humanity. The Georgist philosophy is usually associated with the idea of a single tax on the value of land. Georgists argue that a tax on land value is efficient, fair and equitable, and will accrue sufficient revenue so that other taxes (which are less fair and efficient, also Internet sale tax too ) can be reduced or eliminated.
[...] Brad Feld writes about the current debacle in Colorado where Amazon has shut down all of its affiliates in that state as a result of a new law passed by their legislature and signed by the governor to expand sales tax obligations. Eric Norlin, organizer of the Defrag and Glue conferences, notes in the comments that Amazon has even said its employees can’t attend or speak at those events since they take place in Colorado (apparently done on the advice of their lawyers). [...]
[...] never grasp the law of unintended consequences. After passage of the law, Amazon cancelled the accounts of all affiliate marketers located in Colorado. Now the state will lose [...]
Did they let you to withdraw?
This is a shame , announcing account closed without an e-mail about the cause!
Well when I worked for a cpa company the Colorado government send a similar letter to the company,they said they have some special taxes for those working with the company from colorado.
I hope this situation will not arise again.
so what did you do? can you change your business address in Colorado to outside the state?
i've read it..
that's a bad news..
Its really a bad news.I am very up sate about this one.
hmmm…its bad to hear that and the post is really touchable.
I hope some of the big people will go to help needy people.
Glad to see that many people are going to give their thoughts and interest here.
yea nice Work
Hello,Awesome blog dude! i’m Fed up with using RSS feeds and do you use twitter?so i can follow you there
Hi there could I quote some of the material from this blog if I link back to you?
Hi, Congratulations to the site owner for this marvelous work you’ve done. It has lots of useful and interesting data.
How soon will you update your blog? I’m interested in reading some more information on this issue.
I read about this on another site but your post is so much better
I have no words on this post because it is too much touchy.
It is just amazing work done by owner to post this story.