Palin in Church Feld Thoughts

http://www.emaildashboard.com Deva Hazarika

Interesting and informative read: http://timpanogos.wordpress.com/2008/09/02/the-va…

david

What is the speechless part? That she believes that there is an overall plan for the war and that its God's work?

I'm not an overly religious person and am, quite honestly, turned off by those that are, but she didn't give me scary vibes. As I see or here more, maybe that changes, but not now.

As a homeowner and very part-time resident in Alaska, what are your views of her abilities?

http://www.feld.com Brad Feld

I listened to try to understand what she was saying. I literally couldn't pull out any coherent points in seven minutes. Maybe it is because I don't spend any time in church and don't understand the tempo of the conversation, but I'm just lost.
- rob
  
  I think she was winging it!
  - http://intensedebate.com/people/bfeld bfeld
    
    No – I accept all the religious context. I don't agree with it, but I accept it as the reality of our country. I just couldn't pick up ANY signal from the noise of what she was saying.
  - http://www.feld.com Brad Feld
    
    Ya think? I sure hope so.
    - Alexander Muse
      
      Literally this is fairly typical in the Christian Bible tradition. Sort of like what it is like for me to listen to Tom Cruise talking to Scientology people. Most of my friends growing up were Jews, it was easy for me to understand their tradition as my own (I am a Christian) was born of Judaism. I went to more than fifteen bar mitzvahs and a few Jewish weddings – I didn't understand the Hebrew, but I got the point. My Jewish friends have a MUCH harder time understanding our traditions – i.e. it isn't polite to have a 'come to Jesus' meeting with your Jewish friends. I attend a Baptist church here in Dallas called Wilshire, much more conservative than Palin's Bible church. Our pastor was the QB for Maimi for four years – he went to seminary instead of the NFL. Neat guy…

http://davidduey.typepad.com David Duey

WTF was McCain thinking?

Ian

Similar to David, this does not seem extreme and religion scares me also, can you explain why you are speechless?

PJ

Perhaps grave concern is a better reaction to the following quote from this speech: “God's will is to get this pipeline through here … may God's will be done.” ~ Sarah Palin. One more melanoma and she could be our Commander in Chief. McCain has become reckless, irresponsible and desperate.

Dave

I don't know, David, could he be speechless because:

- Even as governor she speaks like a teenager (“and I was like…”, and “you guys”)
- She appears not to be able to extemporaneously focus on making a coherent point
- She appears to believe that God plays an active role in politics

Of course, these are similar to some of George Bush's finer qualities, so perhaps we shouldn't be surprised.

Jeff

I am not sure why you are speechless. Are you surprised that believers believe and that they feel that God is of central importance to them?

This seems highly innocuous and positive in nature–very different from the hate filled sermons at the church Barack Obama attended for 20 years..

http://www.feld.com Brad Feld

No – I accept all the religious context. I don't agree with it, but I accept it as the reality of our country. I just couldn't pick up ANY signal from the noise of what she was saying.

I think we are extraordinarily confused as a nation about “the separation of church and state.” This might be a problem for all of mankind. Oh well, back to working on computers.
- http://barefootmeg.multiply.com barefootmeg
  
  Sarah's signal (as best I can figure):
  
  I see that this was posted on YouTube yesterday. I'll assume that means this was filmed recently. The fact that she doesn't mention anything on a national scale (other than the fact that Track is in the military) puzzles me. As governor, I expect the Alaska rhetoric. As a possible VP, she should be reaching out a little further. It seems like she's either timid or confused about the VP idea.
  
  Her “points” as best I can figure them out are:
  1) Alaska has great resources and we're going to use them and (as a state) benefit from them.
  2) Track is in the army which shows how patriotic their whole family is. But the tattoos go beyond that to show that they're not just patriots, but patriots with a Christian banner.
  3) And the “I have a word” part was really just a way to rally Christian support without really saying much of anything coherent.
  
  That's my take at least.
- Luca
  
  What makes you think that this country is confused about the separation of church and state? I don't think there's any confusion (or separation).
  
  Re. “problem for all mankind”, read Sam Harris' “The End of Faith”…
- Steve Bergstein
  
  We are extraordinarily confused about what it means to separate church and state.
  
  To me it means that the government, and all of its arms, should have no comment at all on religous matters (no comment in favor of religion and no comment in opposition to religion). I've long felt that we should remove the words “In God We Trust” from our currency (sadly added by our brother Salmon P. Chase when he was Secretary of the Treasury), remove “under God” from the Pledge of Allegiance (which would then allow us to end the debate about whether recitation of The Pledge may be made mandatory in public schools), stop opening Congressional sessions with prayers, and eliminate the Supreme Courts request that “God Save This Honorable Court.” Each of these is an unconstitutional government endorsement of a belief in God. “No comment” isn't an opposition to religion, it represents a lack of a position in any direction.
  - Steve Bergstein
    
    (continuing because I exceeded the length limit)
    
    Needless to say, I'm completely opposed to the posting of any of the usual versions of the Ten Commandments in any government building (contrary to popular opinion, there are multiple and different Protestant, Catholic, and Jewish versions).
    
    I realize that my vision has zero chance of becoming reality, but there it is nonetheless.
    
    May you be touched by His Noodly Appendage.
Joe

I would agree.

If she were an Islamic radical preaching hate, then I would be speechless.

This is very positive and dare I say, full of “HOPE.”

Notice how there are no “God damn America” or “United States of the KKK” which seems to be accepted talk among the media elites.

What is wrong with being religious?

I would think choosing someone from Alaska, who happens to be a woman (with more executive experience than Obama), and not affiliated with Washington, is the type of “Change” people want. Not an elitist who has spent 30+ years in the Senate who wasn't qualified for President several years ago because of a tendency to plagiarize, but is now all of the sudden the perfect running mate….I am speechless.
- K
  
  Hopeful it is not. Rambling, incoherent, bumbling, it is.
evgen

> This seems highly innocuous and positive in nature–very different from the hate filled sermons at the church Barack Obama attended for 20 years..

If you really think that you should check out the sermon given in Mrs. Palin's church two weeks ago (when she was in attendance):

http://www.politico.com/news/stories/0908/13098.h…

Makes the whole Wright affair look a little tepid. This is just a small taste of the wacky neo-dominionist viewpoint in her church. It does put her and her husband's involvement in the Alaska Independence Party and fascination with guns in a somewhat different light…

Jerry

What left ME speechless was the way she interweaves her spiritual beliefs into political and economic policy (The $30 billion pipeline, she seems to be saying, is “God's will.” The war in Iraq is God's will. Last time I checked, God was God of the whole of creation and not just “us.” Not sure but I don't believe Jesus took a position on natural gas pipelines either.)

Nancy C

Governor Palin certainly has conviction and passion. She has enthusiasm that is a bit contagious and probably unites those that are like minded.

The Vice President of the United States will be representing our position globally where many will not be of a like mind. There will be those that will be of an opposing mind. Our Vice President must be equipped to represent our country while thinking on their feet. Commentary will be recorded, published, shared, reviewed, analyzed, and challenged. Within our country and around the globe.

I have concerns regarding her ability to represent the best interest of our country with diplomacy while being required to think on her feet without preparation. While this may be a skill she can develop and grow into, I question the Vice President role being the place to gain this skill set.

http://www.sotirov.com Emil

For me being “speechless”… would be about, I guess, having a President who would be doing “God's Plan” for America… If that's not scary enough, I don't know what would be…

Haven't we had enough of “planned” economies – remember communism and fascism… they came as unhappy masses revolted against the European elites' (19th-20th centuries) rational dismissal of “God's planning”… Yeah – let me say it again (because this is a difficult concept for most Americans) – communism and fascism were successful only because they filled in a void after the growing dismissal of religion in Europe at that time.

The US may very well be at the same crucial point in its history. Most of us (I am agnostic) tend to dismiss religion as something that will fade away by itself (with more teaching of “evolution”, debates, and stuff) – but this may not happen. Other things may start to happen – of the unimaginable type. No thinking person attending the Olympic Games in Paris in 1900 could have imagined the horrors of the 50 years that followed.

Reid

Palin clearly has not spent the last 20 years practicing the smooth delivery of boilerplate lines like most politicians. The fact is the boilerplate spouted by more eloquent politicians is usually equally devoid of real content. I am not religious and did not find that aspect of this video troubling even though I can't relate to it.

To me, this whole Palin debate is a sideshow. I hope that people will take the time to dig into the issues and vote based on them. In many respects Obama is a very appealing individual for whom I would love to vote, but unfortunately reading the details of his tax and economic plans is the only thing that has left me speechless so far.

Cindy

This needs to be taken in context – she is speaking to her home church, to a group of people who have completed an extensive Bible course, and she is speaking from her heart as a woman who is a Christian first and then is a politician. It is not a highly polished speech and she does use some terms that are understood best by those familiar with “church speak” but that is who she is speaking to and for. As Christians we do seek to do what we think is God's will because we believe that God loves mankind and wants the best for us in the long term. This does not mean that He says “yes” to every request we make of Him (that would be chaos) but that He sees the big picture, the end results and will work things out for the betterment of all. So that is why she is asking for prayers, for guidance, for people to see clearly what should be done. I'm glad she is doing that and not relying on her own wisdom and trying to lead from that alone.

Paul

Per Jerry's comment – she didn't ask for prayers “for guidance” or to help “people to see clearly”…she asked for prayers to get a pipeline for Alaska because it'll feed $30 billion into the state's economy. There's a big difference. She also described the war in Iraq as part of God's plan…I suppose this means that those who oppose the war are opposing God's will???

Your description of Christianity sounds pretty good to me (humble, loving, well-meaning)…very different than a speech that cynically tries to invoke God for political purposes(we know the war is right because it's God's plan…pray for a pipeline because it serves our states self-interest). That's what makes it scary.

Roy

It is critical that we separate church from state, but modern politics is seemingly inseparable from religion. Generally terrifying.

http://www.coloradostartups.com David G. Cohen

well put.
Phil

Government deals with issues of ethics and morality. As long as people look to organized religion for guidance on these issues, church and state will be intertwined.

Nancy C

Governor Palin has passion and conviction. She exudes enthusiasm that likely gains agreement and support from those that are like minded.

The Vice President of the United States will interact with many that hold not only similar, but often differing and opposing views. Having the ability to think on one's feet while communicating with diplomacy is critical to the role as comments made will be reviewed, analyzed, commented on, published, and challenged at a global level.

Governor Palin will certainly expand her ability to effectively wing it as she continues to contribute as a government official. I question if the position of Vice President of the United States is the role in which to develop the basic skills needed to represent our country's interests with our friends and foes on an international level.

http://barefootmeg.multiply.com barefootmeg

If a short conversation I had on Facebook today is any indication, Palin doesn't HAVE to have anything specific to say. As long as she munges on about God and the Spirit and being a Christian, she's swaying people. Here's the convo.

Facebook User:
is wondering how ANY Christian can justify voting for Obama now that Palin is in the race…seriously…someone message me and let me know! 10:16am

My response:
How do you think Palin changes things?

His take:
Well….Palin brings a visible Christian ethic to the race. Obama claims to be a Christian yet has nothing to back that claim up, in fact he has a lot to discredit that claim. Biden….I wont waste either of our time….McCain…well he claims to be a Christian, doesnt have a lot to back that up with, but doesnt have a lot to discredit it either….much like Bush….. Palin….claims to be Christian, and has a TON in her short history to back that claim up!….not to mention a record of holding others to a strong Christian ethic and politic!…..With Palin as the VP candidate….gives women a real serious hope that a woman will likely be president in 2012 or 2016….either Palin or Hilary…..

Aziz Grieser

That is scary.
Nancy C

Christian Politic?

http://ben.casnocha.com Ben Casnocha

I watched for three minutes but then had to stop. I didn't want to lose more brain cells than I already had through this exercise of random words in random order.

jeff

What is she talking about? “And I'm like”? “But I'm like, OK…”? Her religious beliefs do not make her qualified for anything. McCain has selected her to attract the votes of Christian conservatives and women. Will it work? I hope not. Isn't it time to put someone in office who is not beholding to the Washington power brokers? I though this country was all about relegious freedom.

Hans

Regardless of whether I agree with the content, Palin actually appeared to know how to connect with her audience. Huh? Everything she said would probably resonate with people that attend that sort of church. She was encouraging the people to help in a religious way they would related to. I doubt she's give the same speech in another setting. The question is whether you think you'd be able to resonate with “church goers” better than Palin did?

Jim Rogers

Allow me if I can to try bridge the gap a little. Many Christians will like Palin because she's up front about her faith, and the implications that her faith has on her decision-making process. Brad, if I'm correct, you're concerned about the fact shows a public appearance of our potential Vice President essentially babbling about nothing. As someone who grew up in fundamentalist churches, now attempts to live a humble Christian life, but swings to the left on most social issues, the two sides are arguing apples and oranges. Fundamentalist/charismatic believers will only hear her sincerity and feel-good vibe, and will give her kudos for being overt with her “Christian” wording. Brad and others who may not be as energized by merely her faith stance are worried about the minimal content and disjointed organization of her speech.

Personally, I think she's probably a nice lady. However, from what I've seen and read, she's no more qualified to be one step from the Presidency than the average small town mayor or mid-level corporate manager. I think the bar should be higher.

Jerry

Well said, jrr2ok. I think you've identified well why she's so appealing to some fundamentalist/charismatic believers. But what worried me about her speech, what gives me further heartburn when I think of her as a candidate for Vice President (let alone as Vice President), is her inability to separate the public and the private in her discourse. Leaving aside the wisdom of the separation of church and state, I'm worried that she believes God actually has positions on things like energy policy, the pre-war Iraqi government, and our “enemies.” To govern with those beliefs would be tantamount to the installation of a theocracy. Lastly, I'm deeply spiritual. I pray daily. I believe the ethics of my religion should be manifest in my values. I think the world wuld be a better place if everyone thought the way I do. I'm a Buddhist. When the private and public discourses are not appropriately separated, I feel unwelcome in the country in which I was born, the country to which I devote hours of service, the country which I have raised my children to love, the country which my father and brother fought and nearly died for.
http://barefootmeg.multiply.com barefootmeg

“However, from what I've seen and read, she's no more qualified to be one step from the Presidency than the average small town mayor or mid-level corporate manager.”

lol! It would be like getting Laura Roslin (Battlestar Galactica) for president. nice.

Joe

first off, of course she did good in alaska, she's the only woman in a 50 mile radius, where everyone is trying to kiss her ass. also, i doubt she understands or even cares to understand the whole concept of seperation of church and state. as a matter of fact, it seems her agenda is guided primarliy by her theist beliefs. i would like to see her have a conversation with sam harris or richard hawkins, now that would be interesting.

Chris

This might make you feel like doing something to help with separation of church and state. Consider checking out (and donating to) http://www.ffrf.org/ . I'm not affiliated other than being a donor.

Aziz Grieser

Woah, opened up a can 'o worms here did ya Brad? Keep it up –> Getting riled up makes 'em think.

I think religion cannot be separated from church and state, and that it never was in this country. The rules that govern the land are created by the people, and if most of them believe, “In God We Trust”, then that's what will show up on every dollar bill. My chief fear for our country is ignorance. Americans are no different from people in other countries: most are wiling to tow their party line without weighing the other side. Palin, Bush, and Muqtada al-Sadr all share the same lines:

“One day I will be asked whether I have been in touch with someone who told me we would win, and I will respond: 'Yes, I have been in touch with God'.”

“I'm on a mission from God”

“I believe that God wants me to be president”

“God's will to get that gas line built”.

If anything, I'd be offended if I were a Christian. Not that she believes in Christianity, but because Palin says that god is in line with her agenda. Oh really? God, described by all religions as the creator of all things, the unknowable, the all-mighty, the all-powerful, the omnipotent, and the essence of all that is life to your tiny insignificant self, has regular team meetings with you, Palin? Oh. Does God ask for your feedback regularly, or did you get a free pass to pitch hit in God's absence?

When someone uses the line “my policy is god's will”, that's when I stop listening, because I know that someone is a bullshit artist, using partial facts and religioous fervor for their own will, like this example:

Sean Hannity, referring to the attacks on Palin on his show Monday night:

http://www.reason.com/convention2008/show/128537….

” …they tried to make the attack that she has a young daughter, pregnant and engaged. Is that fair that they would attack that? I mean, I don’t remember Chelsea Clinton being attacked. I don’t remember Al Gore’s children being attacked. I thought there was a general rule that children of candidates ought to be left alone.”

Here’s none other than John McCain, wowing them at a GOP fundraiser, circa 1998:

http://www.salon.com/news/1998/06/25newsb.html

Why is Chelsea Clinton so ugly?

Because Janet Reno is her father!

Chelsea Clinton was 13 at the time. Going to need a new set of talking points, Sea

richie rich

wassilla alaska has a population of what, 7000. thats only a bit larger than a typical high school(mine was like 3000 people) so, essentially, her political experience is equivalent to that of winning a high school popularity contest

David

Benny Hinn for President!!!?…those of us from overseas – Brads spell reaches far and wide – do get a bit concerned at this kind of thing, but on the whole marvel at the whole process – the length of time, the amount of money spent, the extremely intense amount of coverage and analysis that often forces the candidates to be so bland or mainstream in their delivery..the scary thing is nothing really suprises me with US politics, well not since Quayle..

dv

Folks, this is NOT rocket science:

Religion and democracy are incompatible. The more you move towards one the farther away you get from the other.

Decide what's more important for you and vote accordingly!

Jay Gee

Hmmm…pretty sure I can nail down what comments have been posted by Boulderites and what comments have come from the rest of the planet.

randy ayn

I am speechless too . To think that we might have another evangelical in a high political office that processes her governmental decisions through her imaginary friend first scares the hell out me.

bill

nice anagram

http://www.kidmercuryblog.com kid mercury

palin is not a christian. the one thing all the fake religions, atheists, kooky occultists, and generally everyone under the sun agrees on is that lying is wrong. “thou shalt not bear false witness,” if you're kickin' it 10 commandment style.

with that in mind, remember the following:

1. palin lied when she said she didn't support the bridge to nowhere
2. palin tried to get her bro in law, a state trooper in alaska, fired because of the ugly divorce he was having with palin's sis; palin initially denied involvement, until tapes surfaced proving that was not the case
2. palin clearly supports the war, which is based on 9/11, WHICH IS A TOTAL LIE. that is inescapable and is the basis of our entire reality, whether or not anyone wants to admit it that is the Truth, as true as 2+2=4 to anyone who bothers to look at the evidence.

but hey, palin is a beauty pageant queen, so let's vote for her! though i would urge dumbocrats to remember that kucinich has, BY FAR, the hottest wife of any political candidate…i mean he's an honest guy and scored a hot chick….let's make him our next president so that we can have a first lady who is a hot chick! it's the american thing to do!

Mark Solon

wow. talk about divisiveness. absolutely frightening.

whatever your political or religious leanings, this does not appear to be a person who possesses the skill sets to negotiate on the world stage….

my $.02

http://ridingwithricky.blogspot.com Rickey Henderson

What's to process? She's a shrill conservative C U Next Tuesday. Rickey despises her.

http://ridingwithricky.blogspot.com

Richard Stump

I think everyone may be reading too much into a seven minute speech to a church group

Debbie Joyner

Seemed pretty innocuous to me. I was waiting for the gyrations against the podium ala Rev. Wright. It sounded like someone doing their best to connect with young people and getting them “jazzed” to be christian.

carlaville

The IQ in the audience must be low – she says State of Alaska 200 times, as if they aren't quite sure where they live. The Reps are consistent – act outrageously and be extreme on all fronts with conviction then act like its normal and everyone else is wrong (liberal). Oh, and make sure the earth and human rights are trampled in the name of prosperity for the few.

http://spellspace.blogspot.com tess

If McCain wins, she has a 20% chance of becoming our next President and possibly elect the next 3 supreme court Justices. if that happens, we will be beyond speechless.

Denise

CNBC interview with Palin on energy.

http://www.cnbc.com/id/15840232?video=836304396&a…

Alexander Muse

Strange how my comment was removed… Glitch? Or on purpose?

Aziz Grieser

Mine was too…

Joe

Leader of the free world! Ha. We deserve to listen to her for 16 years if she gets elected. Honestly I'm so embarrassed to be a voter these days.

Roth

“Our leaders are sending them out on a task from God.” – Palin speaking about the military being deployed around the world.

That is dangerous rhetoric no matter your faith. We cannot use our military to fulfill a religious agenda which is exactly what that statement is. If she's a Christian with a strong belief system that is fine but as an elected official one cannot impose the belief system. That scares me a bit but since she will never be anywhere near the white house or become the decider that I'm not to worried about it.

http://voicesage.blogspot.com PaulSweeney

Outsider point of view here: the degree to which it seems “acceptable” that a persons religious beliefs should be so center stage is “remarkable”. In Ireland/ Spain/ Italy the church and state have been hand in hand, and very often not for the public civic good. Tony Blair pushed it out there a bit as well. Everyone understands that people have private beliefs, but they cannot be allowed to dictate civic debate and policy. IMHO.

http://www.votetheday.com votetheday.com

http://www.votetheday.com/polls/spalins-executive…

http://www.votetheday.com votetheday.com

http://www.votetheday.com/polls/spalins-executive…

Aziz Grieser

The site is way over the top, but just watch the video…

http://thejakemarsh.com/1025/

MattEmmi

I just want to know when things are going to start “perculating” here in boulder. On Palin's experience, I leave that to the experts:

http://www.comedycentral.com/videos/index.jhtml?v…

http://www.timrosenblatt.com/blog/ Tim Rosenblatt

Politics and religion aside, why does the drumkit at the back of the stage have a splash screen in front of it? Do they still throw rotten vegetables in Alaska?

Ian

Similar to David, this does not seem extreme and religion scares me also, can you explain why you are speechless?

http://intensedebate.com/people/deva_hazari2084 deva_hazari2084

Interesting and informative read: http://timpanogos.wordpress.com/2008/09/02/the-va…

Dave

I don't know, David, could he be speechless because:

- Even as governor she speaks like a teenager ("and I was like…", and "you guys")
- She appears not to be able to extemporaneously focus on making a coherent point
- She appears to believe that God plays an active role in politics

Of course, these are similar to some of George Bush's finer qualities, so perhaps we shouldn't be surprised.

Jeff

I am not sure why you are speechless. Are you surprised that believers believe and that they feel that God is of central importance to them?

This seems highly innocuous and positive in nature–very different from the hate filled sermons at the church Barack Obama attended for 20 years..

http://intensedebate.com/people/bfeld bfeld

I listened to try to understand what she was saying. I literally couldn't pull out any coherent points in seven minutes. Maybe it is because I don't spend any time in church and don't understand the tempo of the conversation, but I'm just lost.

david

What is the speechless part? That she believes that there is an overall plan for the war and that its God's work?

I'm not an overly religious person and am, quite honestly, turned off by those that are, but she didn't give me scary vibes. As I see or here more, maybe that changes, but not now.

As a homeowner and very part-time resident in Alaska, what are your views of her abilities?

http://intensedebate.com/people/bfeld bfeld

No – I accept all the religious context. I don't agree with it, but I accept it as the reality of our country. I just couldn't pick up ANY signal from the noise of what she was saying.

I think we are extraordinarily confused as a nation about "the separation of church and state." This might be a problem for all of mankind. Oh well, back to working on computers.

http://intensedebate.com/people/david_duey david_duey

WTF was McCain thinking?

rob

I think she was winging it!

http://intensedebate.com/people/bfeld bfeld

No – I accept all the religious context. I don't agree with it, but I accept it as the reality of our country. I just couldn't pick up ANY signal from the noise of what she was saying.

Joe

I would agree.

If she were an Islamic radical preaching hate, then I would be speechless.

This is very positive and dare I say, full of "HOPE."

Notice how there are no "God damn America" or "United States of the KKK" which seems to be accepted talk among the media elites.

What is wrong with being religious?

I would think choosing someone from Alaska, who happens to be a woman (with more executive experience than Obama), and not affiliated with Washington, is the type of "Change" people want. Not an elitist who has spent 30+ years in the Senate who wasn't qualified for President several years ago because of a tendency to plagiarize, but is now all of the sudden the perfect running mate….I am speechless.

http://intensedebate.com/people/barefootmeg389 barefootmeg389

Sarah's signal (as best I can figure):

I see that this was posted on YouTube yesterday. I'll assume that means this was filmed recently. The fact that she doesn't mention anything on a national scale (other than the fact that Track is in the military) puzzles me. As governor, I expect the Alaska rhetoric. As a possible VP, she should be reaching out a little further. It seems like she's either timid or confused about the VP idea.

Her "points" as best I can figure them out are:
1) Alaska has great resources and we're going to use them and (as a state) benefit from them.
2) Track is in the army which shows how patriotic their whole family is. But the tattoos go beyond that to show that they're not just patriots, but patriots with a Christian banner.
3) And the "I have a word" part was really just a way to rally Christian support without really saying much of anything coherent.

That's my take at least.

http://intensedebate.com/people/bfeld bfeld

Ya think? I sure hope so.

evgen

> This seems highly innocuous and positive in nature–very different from the hate filled sermons at the church Barack Obama attended for 20 years..

If you really think that you should check out the sermon given in Mrs. Palin's church two weeks ago (when she was in attendance):

http://www.politico.com/news/stories/0908/13098.h…

Makes the whole Wright affair look a little tepid. This is just a small taste of the wacky neo-dominionist viewpoint in her church. It does put her and her husband's involvement in the Alaska Independence Party and fascination with guns in a somewhat different light…

Jerry

What left ME speechless was the way she interweaves her spiritual beliefs into political and economic policy (The $30 billion pipeline, she seems to be saying, is "God's will." The war in Iraq is God's will. Last time I checked, God was God of the whole of creation and not just "us." Not sure but I don't believe Jesus took a position on natural gas pipelines either.)

Cindy

This needs to be taken in context – she is speaking to her home church, to a group of people who have completed an extensive Bible course, and she is speaking from her heart as a woman who is a Christian first and then is a politician. It is not a highly polished speech and she does use some terms that are understood best by those familiar with "church speak" but that is who she is speaking to and for. As Christians we do seek to do what we think is God's will because we believe that God loves mankind and wants the best for us in the long term. This does not mean that He says "yes" to every request we make of Him (that would be chaos) but that He sees the big picture, the end results and will work things out for the betterment of all. So that is why she is asking for prayers, for guidance, for people to see clearly what should be done. I'm glad she is doing that and not relying on her own wisdom and trying to lead from that alone.

Roy

It is critical that we separate church from state, but modern politics is seemingly inseparable from religion. Generally terrifying.

Emil

For me being "speechless"… would be about, I guess, having a President who would be doing "God's Plan" for America… If that's not scary enough, I don't know what would be…

Haven't we had enough of "planned" economies – remember communism and fascism… they came as unhappy masses revolted against the European elites' (19th-20th centuries) rational dismissal of "God's planning"… Yeah – let me say it again (because this is a difficult concept for most Americans) – communism and fascism were successful only because they filled in a void after the growing dismissal of religion in Europe at that time.

The US may very well be at the same crucial point in its history. Most of us (I am agnostic) tend to dismiss religion as something that will fade away by itself (with more teaching of "evolution", debates, and stuff) – but this may not happen. Other things may start to happen – of the unimaginable type. No thinking person attending the Olympic Games in Paris in 1900 could have imagined the horrors of the 50 years that followed.

Reid

Palin clearly has not spent the last 20 years practicing the smooth delivery of boilerplate lines like most politicians. The fact is the boilerplate spouted by more eloquent politicians is usually equally devoid of real content. I am not religious and did not find that aspect of this video troubling even though I can't relate to it.

To me, this whole Palin debate is a sideshow. I hope that people will take the time to dig into the issues and vote based on them. In many respects Obama is a very appealing individual for whom I would love to vote, but unfortunately reading the details of his tax and economic plans is the only thing that has left me speechless so far.

http://intensedebate.com/people/luca8090 luca8090

What makes you think that this country is confused about the separation of church and state? I don't think there's any confusion (or separation).

Re. "problem for all mankind", read Sam Harris' "The End of Faith"…

http://intensedebate.com/people/barefootmeg389 barefootmeg389

If a short conversation I had on Facebook today is any indication, Palin doesn't HAVE to have anything specific to say. As long as she munges on about God and the Spirit and being a Christian, she's swaying people. Here's the convo.

Facebook User:
is wondering how ANY Christian can justify voting for Obama now that Palin is in the race…seriously…someone message me and let me know! 10:16am

My response:
How do you think Palin changes things?

His take:
Well….Palin brings a visible Christian ethic to the race. Obama claims to be a Christian yet has nothing to back that claim up, in fact he has a lot to discredit that claim. Biden….I wont waste either of our time….McCain…well he claims to be a Christian, doesnt have a lot to back that up with, but doesnt have a lot to discredit it either….much like Bush….. Palin….claims to be Christian, and has a TON in her short history to back that claim up!….not to mention a record of holding others to a strong Christian ethic and politic!…..With Palin as the VP candidate….gives women a real serious hope that a woman will likely be president in 2012 or 2016….either Palin or Hilary…..

http://intensedebate.com/people/steve_bergs2127 steve_bergs2127

We are extraordinarily confused about what it means to separate church and state.

To me it means that the government, and all of its arms, should have no comment at all on religous matters (no comment in favor of religion and no comment in opposition to religion). I've long felt that we should remove the words "In God We Trust" from our currency (sadly added by our brother Salmon P. Chase when he was Secretary of the Treasury), remove "under God" from the Pledge of Allegiance (which would then allow us to end the debate about whether recitation of The Pledge may be made mandatory in public schools), stop opening Congressional sessions with prayers, and eliminate the Supreme Courts request that "God Save This Honorable Court." Each of these is an unconstitutional government endorsement of a belief in God. "No comment" isn't an opposition to religion, it represents a lack of a position in any direction.

Paul

Per Jerry's comment – she didn't ask for prayers "for guidance" or to help "people to see clearly"…she asked for prayers to get a pipeline for Alaska because it'll feed $30 billion into the state's economy. There's a big difference. She also described the war in Iraq as part of God's plan…I suppose this means that those who oppose the war are opposing God's will???

Your description of Christianity sounds pretty good to me (humble, loving, well-meaning)…very different than a speech that cynically tries to invoke God for political purposes(we know the war is right because it's God's plan…pray for a pipeline because it serves our states self-interest). That's what makes it scary.

http://intensedebate.com/people/dgcohen dgcohen

well put.

http://intensedebate.com/people/jrr2ok jrr2ok

Allow me if I can to try bridge the gap a little. Many Christians will like Palin because she's up front about her faith, and the implications that her faith has on her decision-making process. Brad, if I'm correct, you're concerned about the fact shows a public appearance of our potential Vice President essentially babbling about nothing. As someone who grew up in fundamentalist churches, now attempts to live a humble Christian life, but swings to the left on most social issues, the two sides are arguing apples and oranges. Fundamentalist/charismatic believers will only hear her sincerity and feel-good vibe, and will give her kudos for being overt with her "Christian" wording. Brad and others who may not be as energized by merely her faith stance are worried about the minimal content and disjointed organization of her speech.

Personally, I think she's probably a nice lady. However, from what I've seen and read, she's no more qualified to be one step from the Presidency than the average small town mayor or mid-level corporate manager. I think the bar should be higher.

http://intensedebate.com/people/steve_bergs2127 steve_bergs2127

(continuing because I exceeded the length limit)

Needless to say, I'm completely opposed to the posting of any of the usual versions of the Ten Commandments in any government building (contrary to popular opinion, there are multiple and different Protestant, Catholic, and Jewish versions).

I realize that my vision has zero chance of becoming reality, but there it is nonetheless.

May you be touched by His Noodly Appendage.

Jerry

Well said, jrr2ok. I think you've identified well why she's so appealing to some fundamentalist/charismatic believers. But what worried me about her speech, what gives me further heartburn when I think of her as a candidate for Vice President (let alone as Vice President), is her inability to separate the public and the private in her discourse. Leaving aside the wisdom of the separation of church and state, I'm worried that she believes God actually has positions on things like energy policy, the pre-war Iraqi government, and our "enemies." To govern with those beliefs would be tantamount to the installation of a theocracy. Lastly, I'm deeply spiritual. I pray daily. I believe the ethics of my religion should be manifest in my values. I think the world wuld be a better place if everyone thought the way I do. I'm a Buddhist. When the private and public discourses are not appropriately separated, I feel unwelcome in the country in which I was born, the country to which I devote hours of service, the country which I have raised my children to love, the country which my father and brother fought and nearly died for.

Joe

first off, of course she did good in alaska, she's the only woman in a 50 mile radius, where everyone is trying to kiss her ass. also, i doubt she understands or even cares to understand the whole concept of seperation of church and state. as a matter of fact, it seems her agenda is guided primarliy by her theist beliefs. i would like to see her have a conversation with sam harris or richard hawkins, now that would be interesting.

Hans

Regardless of whether I agree with the content, Palin actually appeared to know how to connect with her audience. Huh? Everything she said would probably resonate with people that attend that sort of church. She was encouraging the people to help in a religious way they would related to. I doubt she's give the same speech in another setting. The question is whether you think you'd be able to resonate with "church goers" better than Palin did?

http://intensedebate.com/people/aziz_griese5636 aziz_griese5636

Woah, opened up a can 'o worms here did ya Brad? Keep it up –> Getting riled up makes 'em think.

I think religion cannot be separated from church and state, and that it never was in this country. The rules that govern the land are created by the people, and if most of them believe, "In God We Trust", then that's what will show up on every dollar bill. My chief fear for our country is ignorance. Americans are no different from people in other countries: most are wiling to tow their party line without weighing the other side. Palin, Bush, and Muqtada al-Sadr all share the same lines:

"One day I will be asked whether I have been in touch with someone who told me we would win, and I will respond: 'Yes, I have been in touch with God'."

"I'm on a mission from God"

“I believe that God wants me to be president”

"God's will to get that gas line built".

If anything, I'd be offended if I were a Christian. Not that she believes in Christianity, but because Palin says that god is in line with her agenda. Oh really? God, described by all religions as the creator of all things, the unknowable, the all-mighty, the all-powerful, the omnipotent, and the essence of all that is life to your tiny insignificant self, has regular team meetings with you, Palin? Oh. Does God ask for your feedback regularly, or did you get a free pass to pitch hit in God's absence?

When someone uses the line "my policy is god's will", that's when I stop listening, because I know that someone is a bullshit artist, using partial facts and religioous fervor for their own will, like this example:

Sean Hannity, referring to the attacks on Palin on his show Monday night:

http://www.reason.com/convention2008/show/128537….

" …they tried to make the attack that she has a young daughter, pregnant and engaged. Is that fair that they would attack that? I mean, I don’t remember Chelsea Clinton being attacked. I don’t remember Al Gore’s children being attacked. I thought there was a general rule that children of candidates ought to be left alone."

Here’s none other than John McCain, wowing them at a GOP fundraiser, circa 1998:

http://www.salon.com/news/1998/06/25newsb.html

Why is Chelsea Clinton so ugly?

Because Janet Reno is her father!

Chelsea Clinton was 13 at the time. Going to need a new set of talking points, Sea

Ben Casnocha

I watched for three minutes but then had to stop. I didn't want to lose more brain cells than I already had through this exercise of random words in random order.

http://intensedebate.com/people/aziz_griese5636 aziz_griese5636

That is scary.

Phil

Government deals with issues of ethics and morality. As long as people look to organized religion for guidance on these issues, church and state will be intertwined.

jeff

What is she talking about? "And I'm like"? "But I'm like, OK…"? Her religious beliefs do not make her qualified for anything. McCain has selected her to attract the votes of Christian conservatives and women. Will it work? I hope not. Isn't it time to put someone in office who is not beholding to the Washington power brokers? I though this country was all about relegious freedom.

http://intensedebate.com/people/barefootmeg389 barefootmeg389

"However, from what I've seen and read, she's no more qualified to be one step from the Presidency than the average small town mayor or mid-level corporate manager."

lol! It would be like getting Laura Roslin (Battlestar Galactica) for president. nice.

richie rich

wassilla alaska has a population of what, 7000. thats only a bit larger than a typical high school(mine was like 3000 people) so, essentially, her political experience is equivalent to that of winning a high school popularity contest

dv

Folks, this is NOT rocket science:

Religion and democracy are incompatible. The more you move towards one the farther away you get from the other.

Decide what's more important for you and vote accordingly!

David

Benny Hinn for President!!!?…those of us from overseas – Brads spell reaches far and wide – do get a bit concerned at this kind of thing, but on the whole marvel at the whole process – the length of time, the amount of money spent, the extremely intense amount of coverage and analysis that often forces the candidates to be so bland or mainstream in their delivery..the scary thing is nothing really suprises me with US politics, well not since Quayle..

Mark Solon

wow. talk about divisiveness. absolutely frightening.

whatever your political or religious leanings, this does not appear to be a person who possesses the skill sets to negotiate on the world stage….

my $.02

http://intensedebate.com/people/richard_st59861 richard_st59861

I think everyone may be reading too much into a seven minute speech to a church group

K

Hopeful it is not. Rambling, incoherent, bumbling, it is.

carlaville

The IQ in the audience must be low – she says State of Alaska 200 times, as if they aren't quite sure where they live. The Reps are consistent – act outrageously and be extreme on all fronts with conviction then act like its normal and everyone else is wrong (liberal). Oh, and make sure the earth and human rights are trampled in the name of prosperity for the few.

bill

nice anagram

tess

If McCain wins, she has a 20% chance of becoming our next President and possibly elect the next 3 supreme court Justices. if that happens, we will be beyond speechless.

Jay Gee

Hmmm…pretty sure I can nail down what comments have been posted by Boulderites and what comments have come from the rest of the planet.

Joe

Leader of the free world! Ha. We deserve to listen to her for 16 years if she gets elected. Honestly I'm so embarrassed to be a voter these days.

randy ayn

I am speechless too . To think that we might have another evangelical in a high political office that processes her governmental decisions through her imaginary friend first scares the hell out me.

http://intensedebate.com/people/kidmercury kidmercury

palin is not a christian. the one thing all the fake religions, atheists, kooky occultists, and generally everyone under the sun agrees on is that lying is wrong. "thou shalt not bear false witness," if you're kickin' it 10 commandment style.

with that in mind, remember the following:

1. palin lied when she said she didn't support the bridge to nowhere
2. palin tried to get her bro in law, a state trooper in alaska, fired because of the ugly divorce he was having with palin's sis; palin initially denied involvement, until tapes surfaced proving that was not the case
2. palin clearly supports the war, which is based on 9/11, WHICH IS A TOTAL LIE. that is inescapable and is the basis of our entire reality, whether or not anyone wants to admit it that is the Truth, as true as 2+2=4 to anyone who bothers to look at the evidence.

but hey, palin is a beauty pageant queen, so let's vote for her! though i would urge dumbocrats to remember that kucinich has, BY FAR, the hottest wife of any political candidate…i mean he's an honest guy and scored a hot chick….let's make him our next president so that we can have a first lady who is a hot chick! it's the american thing to do!

Debbie Joyner

Seemed pretty innocuous to me. I was waiting for the gyrations against the podium ala Rev. Wright. It sounded like someone doing their best to connect with young people and getting them "jazzed" to be christian.

Denise

CNBC interview with Palin on energy.

http://www.cnbc.com/id/15840232?video=836304396&a…

http://intensedebate.com/people/MattEmmi MattEmmi

I just want to know when things are going to start "perculating" here in boulder. On Palin's experience, I leave that to the experts:

http://www.comedycentral.com/videos/index.jhtml?v…

PJ

Perhaps grave concern is a better reaction to the following quote from this speech: "God's will is to get this pipeline through here … may God's will be done." ~ Sarah Palin. One more melanoma and she could be our Commander in Chief. McCain has become reckless, irresponsible and desperate.

Tim Rosenblatt

Politics and religion aside, why does the drumkit at the back of the stage have a splash screen in front of it? Do they still throw rotten vegetables in Alaska?

Roth

"Our leaders are sending them out on a task from God." – Palin speaking about the military being deployed around the world.

That is dangerous rhetoric no matter your faith. We cannot use our military to fulfill a religious agenda which is exactly what that statement is. If she's a Christian with a strong belief system that is fine but as an elected official one cannot impose the belief system. That scares me a bit but since she will never be anywhere near the white house or become the decider that I'm not to worried about it.

http://intensedebate.com/people/paulsweeney2026 paulsweeney2026

Outsider point of view here: the degree to which it seems "acceptable" that a persons religious beliefs should be so center stage is "remarkable". In Ireland/ Spain/ Italy the church and state have been hand in hand, and very often not for the public civic good. Tony Blair pushed it out there a bit as well. Everyone understands that people have private beliefs, but they cannot be allowed to dictate civic debate and policy. IMHO.

http://intensedebate.com/people/aziz_griese5636 aziz_griese5636

Mine was too…

Nancy C

Governor Palin has passion and conviction. She exudes enthusiasm that likely gains agreement and support from those that are like minded.

The Vice President of the United States will interact with many that hold not only similar, but often differing and opposing views. Having the ability to think on one's feet while communicating with diplomacy is critical to the role as comments made will be reviewed, analyzed, commented on, published, and challenged at a global level.

Governor Palin will certainly expand her ability to effectively wing it as she continues to contribute as a government official. I question if the position of Vice President of the United States is the role in which to develop the basic skills needed to represent our country's interests with our friends and foes on an international level.

http://intensedebate.com/people/alexander_45451 alexander_45451

Strange how my comment was removed… Glitch? Or on purpose?

Nancy C

Christian Politic?

http://intensedebate.com/people/aziz_griese5636 aziz_griese5636

The site is way over the top, but just watch the video…

http://thejakemarsh.com/1025/

Chris

This might make you feel like doing something to help with separation of church and state. Consider checking out (and donating to) http://www.ffrf.org/ . I'm not affiliated other than being a donor.

Nancy C

Governor Palin certainly has conviction and passion. She has enthusiasm that is a bit contagious and probably unites those that are like minded.

The Vice President of the United States will be representing our position globally where many will not be of a like mind. There will be those that will be of an opposing mind. Our Vice President must be equipped to represent our country while thinking on their feet. Commentary will be recorded, published, shared, reviewed, analyzed, and challenged. Within our country and around the globe.

I have concerns regarding her ability to represent the best interest of our country with diplomacy while being required to think on her feet without preparation. While this may be a skill she can develop and grow into, I question the Vice President role being the place to gain this skill set.

Rickey Henderson

What's to process? She's a shrill conservative C U Next Tuesday. Rickey despises her.

http://ridingwithricky.blogspot.com

http://intensedebate.com/people/alexander_45451 alexander_45451

Literally this is fairly typical in the Christian Bible tradition. Sort of like what it is like for me to listen to Tom Cruise talking to Scientology people. Most of my friends growing up were Jews, it was easy for me to understand their tradition as my own (I am a Christian) was born of Judaism. I went to more than fifteen bar mitzvahs and a few Jewish weddings – I didn't understand the Hebrew, but I got the point. My Jewish friends have a MUCH harder time understanding our traditions – i.e. it isn't polite to have a 'come to Jesus' meeting with your Jewish friends. I attend a Baptist church here in Dallas called Wilshire, much more conservative than Palin's Bible church. Our pastor was the QB for Maimi for four years – he went to seminary instead of the NFL. Neat guy…

Palin in Church

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